Transcript
Sarah Montana: You are listening to OnWriting a podcast from the Writers Guild of America East.
Devin Delliquanti: Each episode you’ll hear from the union members who create film, TV series, podcasts, and news stories that define our culture.
Suzanne Weber: We’ll discuss everything from inspirations and creative process to what it takes to build a successful career in media and entertainment.
Sarah Montana: The three of us are captains in the film TV streaming sector of the WGAE. In today’s podcast, we are going to discuss the importance of the Captains Network in our union because we are really important.
Devin Delliquanti: The WGAE Captains Network is made up of a group of dedicated and engaged members who connect other members in their workplace and networks to their union and have baseball hats that say, “WGAE Captain.”
Sarah Montana: Which is 90% of why I agreed to the gig.
Suzanne Weber: 100% if she is being honest. As captains, we work to build community for members and to facilitate communication from our teams to union leadership and staff. Captains further the Guild’s ability to provide effective union representation for each and every member, especially you. Yeah, you.
Sarah Montana: Okay. I guess we should start with who we are. Who are we?
Suzanne Weber: Who are we?
Sarah Montana: Big Zoolander questions at the top of OnWriting podcast.
Suzanne Weber: Devin, who are you?
Devin Delliquanti: Oh, I’ll start. Thank you for asking. I’m Devin Delliquanti. I am a writer. I work currently at The Daily Show, and I’ve written recently on the Grammy Awards, a couple of Jordan Klepper specials, one of which is coming out soon. I don’t know if the title has been revealed, but it’s exciting. And yeah, I’ve been a WGA East member for almost 10 years. I joined the Guild when I got hired at the Daily Show, which also was just about 10 years ago, so that is who I am. I’ll throw it to Sarah. Sarah, who are you?
Sarah Montana: I am Sarah Montana. I joined the Guild in 2020 in March, literally right as the pandemic was starting, which was just optimal timing, and I primarily write romcoms. There may or may not be a theme of some Santa involved. Some of them have been for Hallmark Channel or those kinds of things, but yeah, most of my screenwriting is romantic comedies and then do other kinds of writing that does not pertain to this union, and so who cares? Suzanne, take it away.
Suzanne Weber: Hi, I am Suzanne Weber. I have been a member of the Guild, I think since the Guild started. I think I was a founding member of the Writers Guild. No, I’ve really been a member since the early aughts, do we call them? And I became a member because I was doing comedy in New York and I had a character and I was able to get a development deal off of that. And so I became a member of WGA East. I was living in New York at the time, and since then I have been primarily a developer, developing half hour pilots, comedy pilots, super, super, super funny comedy pilots.
And then I was on staff for Disney’s Andi Mack and for the ill-fated Lizzie McGuire reboot. And then I moved back to New York in 2022. I was actually … Sorry. I was in LA for a good 15 years on that coast as a member of the WGAW. And yeah, when I moved back in 2022, I came back into the fold and I am a captain and a council member.
Sarah Montana: Oh yeah, I should have-
Suzanne Weber: WGAE.
Sarah Montana: I guess I should also say I, Sarah Montana, I’m also a council member.
Suzanne Weber: You wish you were a council member.
Sarah Montana: We’ll get Devin to do it.
Devin Delliquanti: That is a flex, I have to say. I don’t think I’m electable. I think it’s clear [inaudible 00:04:05].
Sarah Montana: [inaudible 00:04:05] skeletons.
Devin Delliquanti: That’s one of the things I like about being a captain is I’m just free rein without having to be elected. I just get appointed to-
Suzanne Weber: It is nice.
Devin Delliquanti: … non-confirmed position.
Sarah Montana: Oh, yeah.
Devin Delliquanti: Those can have a lot of power.
Suzanne Weber: Also, it’s not like being on council comes with any merch.
Sarah Montana: No merch? No, there’s no council hat?
Suzanne Weber: No merch, no council hat.
Sarah Montana: We do get a pin, but that’s not as cool as that.
Suzanne Weber: But the pin doesn’t say, “Hi, I’m an important member of this Guild.” It just says =, “WGA East.”
Sarah Montana: Yeah, you’re right. Okay. The swag is better as captains.
Devin Delliquanti: The rest of us can’t get that pin? There’s no-
Sarah Montana: Actually, you probably can’t.
Suzanne Weber: Oh, no. No, no. No, no.
Devin Delliquanti: You just had to ask.
Suzanne Weber: No, you cannot. No.
Sarah Montana: We’ll just have this one thing.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah, no, that’s fair.
Suzanne Weber: There were only 24 made.
Sarah Montana: Let’s talk about our captain origin stories. How did all of us become captains? Suzanne, do you want to kick us off with your origin story?
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. I feel like I have a good story, which is that when I, again, I had been developing for years and years and I wanted or had the idea that I wanted to be staffed, I felt like that was going to be a really important part of being a writer. I very much wanted to. My husband was an actor for many years and he was in equity, and whenever he would start a new show and go into the rehearsal room, one of the cast would be appointed or volunteer to be the equity deputy. And that was the person who reported, not just even reported to the union about anything that was going on, but also made sure that they were taking their breaks and sort of really administered the rules.
And so every time he would come back from his first rehearsal, I’d be like, “Are you the deputy? Are you the deputy?” I was really excited by that idea. So when I showed up on my first day for the room at Andi Mack, I said, “I would like to be the captain for the union for WGA.” And I didn’t know what it meant. I just knew that I was going to have some small amount of authority that I wanted and I really enjoyed it and I really liked it. I liked … That was the moment really for me where I started interacting with my union with the staff on the West Coast in a way that it hadn’t occurred to me that there were actual people behind the curtain of our union.
And so that was great, and it was a really, we’ll talk more about it later, but it was a pretty exciting time because that was during that strike authorization vote of 2017. That because of how overwhelming it was, and there was so much participation from both unions, the WGA West and the WGA East likely headed off a strike. It was a really significant moment of … And I understood it fully from leadership, from staff, and I understood what the need was as a captain to communicate that. So that moment of being a captain really I think crystallized my understanding and my commitment to that role.
Sarah Montana: Devin, what about you? What was your origin story?
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah, I feel like 2017 was a big moment for me as well. The Daily Show is kind of … There’s been a lot of staff writers who’ve been here for a long time. And when I came in, I think Zhubin Parang was the captain who had served, I believe, on the council.
Sarah Montana: Yeah, he’s amazing.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. For people who can’t see on the podcast, Sarah just put her hand very gingerly on her heart as Zhubin Parang’s name was mentioned. So it was the right physical representation of the emotion.
Sarah Montana: Yes.
Devin Delliquanti: So yeah, Zhubin was a terrific captain, a brilliant writer, and he represented us well and would pass along the information. And I remember we left work that, whatever it was, the end of April in 2017, and we weren’t sure if there was going to be a strike. And there had been a strike authorization vote, and luckily a deal got done that night, which was great. But he eventually approached me and just wanted to see if some of the other writers could also take on some of the responsibilities of that, which I was happy to do. And I also knew … I think I started in around 2019 and it was kind of clear that the changes in the industry were coming really quickly and that a sort of transformational fight in the industry was coming.
I think people could kind of see the 2023 strike on the horizon. Nobody wanted it, and we all hoped to avoid it. And I just knew that it would be a good way to be in a position to do everything that I could and be on the ground, but also have information. I think it’s so hard in television sometimes to get information from people. And the Guild is really great at communicating things, and I thought I could at least do my part to communicate with the other writers at the show or other writers in the comedy variety sector. So I decided to do it.
Then the 2020 negotiation just became kind of a pause because of COVID and I think anybody, there was no appetite to have a contentious negotiation, and we were just trying to keep the world together at that point. But yeah, that’s sort of how I became a captain, and I’ve been one ever since. And I wear the hat with honor.
Sarah Montana: I love that. Wear the hat with honor. That needs to be the magic-
Suzanne Weber: I do too. It’s meaningful.
Sarah Montana: It is. It means something to show up in … I still, I would come home from pickets. This is skipping ahead at my origin story, but even now I’ll wear it when we go out and do political actions now. And as I’m walking home from the train, I’ll see people look at it and I’m like, “Yeah, I am a WGA captain. You’ve heard of us. We were in the news.” So my origin story is a little more recent. I’m a noob. So I joined in 2020 in March, literally as the pandemic was starting. And most of my union activism or really just involvement was all online. It was all Zoom. And so I was still trying to get to know the union for those first couple of years, but I happened to be in a WGA women’s comedy writing group that during the pandemic, someone sent an email to the Women’s Salon Marjorie and was like, “Does anybody want to do a writing group together?”
And maybe 10 of us got into this writing group, and one of them was Sasha Stewart who was then on council. And so as we got closer … See if you can’t see Deputy Stewart, they ended [inaudible 00:10:44] Sasha Stewart, which is a thousand percent warranted. So as we were gearing up for the 2023 MBA negotiations, and we were going to have member meetings to go over the pattern of demands, I knew Sasha was on council, and I was like, “Can we talk about this? What is this? I feel so new to all of this.” And she was like, “Come to the member meeting with me.” And we sat in the audience together, and I was just sort of riveted when council and the negotiating committee east members were explaining the state of the industry, were explaining what was at stake. And the truth is I had a lot of different hats and careers before I became a screenwriter.
I was an opera singer, I was a music theater performer, and then I was a writer who did things in publishing and a lot of different other mediums that don’t have the same protections and who had all experienced some level of this Silicon Valley model, financial creep and disruption. And the fact that there was this system in place like a strike authorization voter that we were laying out this pattern of demands. Just the idea that artists could be protected was so foreign and riveting to me, even though I’d been in the union for three years at that point. Being at the union up to that point was like, okay, this is who I call about credits. This is who I call about this, this a place where I can network with fellow writers. That’s lovely. But I hadn’t been here for a big activation yet.
And so I asked Sasha, I was like, “How do I get involved? How do I help with this?” And she said, “Oh, you need to email Michelle Kuchinsky, who is staff at WJ East.” And she of course called me the next day and I said, “Hi, I’m happy to help if you need someone to staple signs or make runs for water bottles or something.” And she was like, “What we need are captains.” And I was like, “Oh, no, I can’t be a captain. I’m way too new. I know absolutely nothing.” And Michelle was like, “So we’ll train you.” And so then they trained us, and then it was the strike authorization vote. And then, oh my God, beyond that, it was like, no, we’re actually going on strike. And I remember shaking on the way to my first picket and just being like, “What am I doing? What have I gotten myself into? Wait, no, this is important.” I had just breathing on the corner before I turned to go to Netflix and going, “Listen, all you have to do is be a helper. They will tell you what to do.”
And I got there and I found Michelle and I was like, “Hi, I’m here. I’m Sarah. I’m a captain. I want to help. How can I help?” And she was like, “Great, take the bullhorn. You have the least of chance.” It was like immediately, I’m on a bullhorn shouting at people who had been my childhood heroes being like, “What do we want? When do we want it?” But what I will say about being thrown in the fire during strike was to the staff credit and the Guild’s credit and the other captains who were there who had experience like you guys. I mean, there was just so many resources and training and it was in such a short period I went from like, “Okay, I’m scared to do this,” to, “I’m helping lead production shutdown pickets all over New Jersey and being a point person to that to wait, someone nominated me for council. Okay, wait, I guess I’m going to run for council, but I won’t win. Oh, no, I’m on council. Oh yeah, I’m on council.”
And that I think is completely a testament to the Captains Network that we already had in place, and just the experience and the generosity of fellow captains to give everybody the tools they need, but also just the training and what our staff is capable of doing and the organizing they’re able to do. It’s crazy. My husband still has whiplash that our lives changed dramatically in six months. It went from like, oh yeah, I guess she’s in a union to the union’s like everything we do.
Suzanne Weber: I feel like I saw you on that first day possibly.
Sarah Montana: Yes, you did.
Suzanne Weber: And I actually felt like you hid your sort of inexperience really well. I think both you and I got on the bullhorn together. And I feel like … I mean, it was interesting. I had also never been a captain on a picket line. We’re going to talk about this a little later, about the difference between being a captain in peacetime versus wartime. Although one could argue it is now always wartime. But I felt like being a captain during the strike allowed me to get to know the staff in a way that you don’t normally because you’re not dropping by seeing them, you’re calling them, it’s a name, whatever. But Michelle Kuchinsky, Mack Harden, Ryan Ross, Jeff, I mean, they were all out there.
Devin Delliquanti: Jason Gordon was so big with the messaging as well.
Suzanne Weber: And Jason Gordon. Yeah, absolutely. And so, right, you’d see him and anytime you’d get approached by a reporter or whatever, you’d turn to Jason and say, “What do I do?” And sometimes Jason would say, “You’re going to deal right now. You’re going to be the person.” So yeah, it was a bit of trial by fire. But it also, I think for a lot of us, the three of us certainly who were on the picket lines, it reinforced our commitment to the union and also at least very much for me, really, really woke up my activism in every area of my life. Like this idea that you can, even if you think it’s not you who’s going to make the change, sometimes it is you who’s at least going to help and mobilize people and organize people.
Sarah Montana: Yeah. I mean, I thought that I was going to show up and staple signs because there were so many people that I couldn’t possibly be high enough on the queue. And one of the big takeaways was that we need everyone to take action. There’s no … And it’s not about showing up and having an agenda as to how you’re going to serve. It’s showing up, getting in the fray and saying, “I can help. Where do you need me?” But to your point, it’s changed my relationship with the union after the fact.
Before that I’m in a sector, I do a lot of movie of the week, and it is this tiny little part of the NBA that’s like … We’re scattered throughout the country. It’s not like I was in a room where I knew other people. And there were times where I sometimes was scared before I was a captain to contact the … Jeff Betts, his name was a name on a list on the WGA east. It is so different than being like, “Oh, it’s Jeff.” Or like, “Oh, it’s Mack or it’s Michelle.” Of course I can email and ask my inane questions about credits or what happens with my healthcare and pension fund.
And yeah, that involvement just has made it … It’s changed my career too. There have been moments where I’m better protected because I’m no longer scared to ask the questions. And I’m now in a deeper relationship with my union, which means that it knows better how to protect me in turn.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. I remember those first days of the strike so clearly because it was terrifying in every sense because financially, in terms of your jobs, in terms of the fight that it was going to be, and the uncertainty of not knowing it multiplied by being a captain and showing up to those things and talking to press and wanting to make sure you represented the fight well and the union well. And also it’s impossible to have imposter syndrome on a bullhorn. It will cure it immediately because you just have to rally and you feel people’s response to you, and you feel the energy of everybody looking for that to other people in the fight.
And I think that that was such a helpful moment. And I think it’s also a good lesson that anybody who’s considering being a captain can do it. The Guild will get you to where you need to be. You’ll learn how to do it. And it was such a experience and it was so important. And I think it was part of the reason that the Guild was able to get the gains that they got was because of the Captains Network.
Sarah Montana: No, we’ve talked about this a lot since then. It’s like, and Suzanne, I mean, you have more experience with this, but we were able to do a lot more and hit the ground running and have more pickets and have more actions during 2023 than I think during the 2007, 2008 strike, right?
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. So I was a part of that as well. I mean, I was here and I knew, again, I, like Sarah, I was excited to join the union, but I didn’t really … I was like, “Yeah, I’m going to call them occasionally.” Mostly for me it was like health insurance and then it’s like, but that’s actually run by a separate entity. But it was … Yeah, I was not very … I liked being a part of a union, but I didn’t know … It didn’t occur to me how to be involved. But I did know when we went on strike that, not only did I defend us going on strike vociferously to agents and producers, I was very much in the thick of things at that point. I had things in development. I mean, I was really in it and I was still like, “We’re going on strike.” It just was so clear to me.
I understood what the strike was and how important it was. And there was a lot of pushback from the people, agents and producers and studios, people that I was working with. “This is ruining the industry and this is this and you writers and whatever.” And I was like, “Well, this is how it works. I don’t know what to tell you. This is how it works. And what are you seriously asking of us? To give up the one bit of power that we have, which is to walk away. You guys know to do that in negotiations all the time. So I was on the picket line and I was actually going to say, I don’t know why Devin would even care much about this.
But when I was on the picket line in 2007, 2008, I was also because I was developing, knew no other writers. I had no community. I had knew nobody who was doing what I was doing. And what ended up happening on that picket line was I really made friends with all the late night guys, and they were mostly guys at that point. And it was so much fun, right? Because they were funny and cool and fun, and you were like, “Oh, here you are.”
Devin Delliquanti: A lot has changed.
Suzanne Weber: You mean they’re still guys, but they’re just not as fun and funny?
Devin Delliquanti: No, no, no. Okay.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. So that was cool. And I made some lifelong friends on that line. Like Becky Mode is a writer who’s a really incredible writer, incredible creator who’s done a bunch of stuff. And she and I bought matching orange Gap parkas and walked around, I don’t know, it’s not great because you’re on a strike, but the sense of community and at that point in my recollection, were there captains then? I’m just not…
Sarah Montana: I think it was-
Suzanne Weber: I don’t know.
Sarah Montana: There may have been, but it’s definitely, in listening to Jeff talk about this, the Captains Network has just been built up substantially over the last decade. It went from sort of a ton of credit to Jeff Betts for helping build out our captain system the way that it exists now. And I think this is actually kind of a nice segue for us to talk too about there’s a difference between being a picket captain, like a strike captain, and then having your team. And one of the things I think we were all juggling, or I don’t know if you guys felt this, I was juggling, I was a picket captain. It’s really clear. I’m showing up to the strike line. They’re giving me a bullhorn. I’m telling people where to go. I’m talking to the police and trying to deescalate things, but also keep things energized. Those were just really clear wartime instructions.
And then my team is largely comprised of people who I will never see in person, who some of them are in New Jersey, some of them are in Philadelphia, some of them are in Brooklyn, some of them are in Manhattan. They’re all features writers who could be anywhere essentially. And some of them were able to show up to the picket lines in person. And for some people it was just not feasible based on geography, because we are the WGA East, it’s like east of the Mississippi. And so how to be a captain to those people and what it meant to be a captain in terms of communication and keeping people updated? Trying to figure out how to do that when it’s emails and communication with people who have never heard your name before, which I know can be different. You guys have done it as room captains too, which feels a little bit different. But figuring out how do people get assigned to your team? What does it mean to be a captain in that capacity for strike authorization boat and all of that was a whole different can of worms.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. I actually called the person out west who was, when I became a captain in the room, who was my point person out there, and I was talking to her, Sheila Wagner, and I was talking to her about in preparation for this podcast, I don’t know if you guys did any research, but I actually did research.
Sarah Montana: Don’t do this to us, don’t do this to us.
Devin Delliquanti: It’s a good flex.
Suzanne Weber: Did you not? Okay.
Devin Delliquanti: I went through all my strike notes. I went through the whole … I have a notes folder that has it, and I looked at all the things and I was flashing back. It was … Yeah.
Suzanne Weber: Okay, so you did a little like-
Devin Delliquanti: A little bit.
Suzanne Weber: … bring yourself back to-
Devin Delliquanti: Just a walk down memory lane.
Suzanne Weber: To 2023, Devin.
Sarah Montana: This is all improv. You’re getting it fresh off the presses, no prep.
Suzanne Weber: I made a phone call, okay? To the west to Los Angeles.
Sarah Montana: Wow. Wow, wow.
Suzanne Weber: So I was talking to Sheila because in my recollection, I thought, because I guess it was my own trajectory that captains started in the room, almost like shop stewards. They start in the room. And then I didn’t understand when I thought we moved the Captains Network out of the room for the agency action, when the Guild asked everyone to fire their agents so that we could get them to sign codes of conduct so they could actually adhere to their fiscal responsibilities or representatives. And I think it’s just that was my trajectory because I had left the room at that point and I stayed. Sheila said, “Do you want to stay on as captain?” I was like, “Can I?” And she’s like, “Yeah.” But that point you sort of made your own team.
So at that point it was just the who had been in the room with me and then a couple straggler friends. But my feeling about that time, and I think this is true, is that the Captains Network became so important during the agency action, the agency campaign because it was polarizing and people were reading in the trades and they were talking to their agents. And it was really important for the captains to communicate the union perspective and to keep people from basically freaking out and to continue. And also in turn, because it’s a really important part of being a captain as well, is to be able to bring the members’ concerns back to leadership and back to staff.
And it’s not just as captains, you’re sort of towing the union line. You’re actually the … You have the ability to take a general member’s concerns and bring it into the conversation in council or to whatever staff needs to address it. So it felt to me during that time, because it was so not, it was not as clear as like, we are not getting what we need from the AMPTP, we need to go on strike. It was more like we all have to do this very hard thing that is very scary. It is hard to get an agent. So the idea of firing your agent was almost impossible for people to emotionally, certainly and intellectually get on board with. It really took so many conversations. I had so many conversations with people talking them off the ledge.
Sarah Montana: Devin, is your team … You were in the Daily Show room, but for your team, has it always been people who are on Daily Show with you or is it a hodgepodge of people across late night?
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. As long as I’ve been here, it’s mostly been the Daily Show team. I have a couple people who were on other comedy variety shows that I picked up as team members and I would communicate them and I kind of had separate channels for the Daily Show people who I would be able to talk to and communicate with, and then my separate team that I would email or be on text with or let them know about pickets. And I have the luxury of, I see my team members when I’m at work or we have work meetings, but sometimes you’ll be in contact with your team members and you just won’t hear things. You’ll send messages and hope that people sign petitions or hope that people take actions. But I would actually see some team members in picket lines and know like, oh, the message is getting through. They show up.
And that was pretty meaningful. But during peacetime, as we’re calling it, you might not hear a lot, but sometimes people will reach out for particular information or Guild resources and it’s good to be available for that. But being able to have a team that is a particular writers’ room is very helpful because you can bring things up to them and answer questions in real time. And I feel lucky to do that. And another thing about being a captain too is when someone gets into the Guild, usually they’ve gotten a job and I’m sure that all of their focus and attention is on that job and wanting to do it well and the nerves around it and all that. So they’re not necessarily thinking about, “Well, what’s the healthcare situation? What’s the pension situation? How many points do I accrue if I need to keep my health insurance?”
There’s so many of those things that you shouldn’t necessarily have to worry about and dig into the big healthcare policy packets that you get in the beginning. So captains are a great resource for that kind of thing too. And I think we’ve all been through it so much looking into the pension and health, both in terms of the nuances of how the policies work, but also the fights that we’ve had to make to shore up the health fund and the pension fund and knowing not just what we’re entitled to, but then what was given up in order to fight for that.
So I think it’s good for new writers to be able to have a resource like, “Here’s how the pension works. Here’s how the healthcare fund works. Here’s where you can check if you’re vested or not, or how long it takes or the delay of getting into the healthcare plan, how much you need to earn to qualify.” All those questions that could feel overwhelming when you’re also trying to start a new job.
Sarah Montana: Totally.
Devin Delliquanti: I think it’s nice.
Sarah Montana: And also even just what a union means and how this union may function differently than other unions. If you were a part of another union, how does WGA specifically work? Even when I first joined, I mean, I’ve been in other unions where maybe the healthcare wasn’t as … Our plan is really strong, and I remember going to Sasha at the beginning and being like, “Hi, I’ve qualified for this healthcare, but should I be on this healthcare?” And she was like, “I don’t know. Do you want the same health insurance as Tina Fey?” And I was like, “It’s an excellent point.” Okay, great. Right, sorry. Yes.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. And I also think the Captains Network with Sarah’s help from getting onto council, but Mack Harden, who’s one our business agents. We have worked and then I’ve also worked with Mack on this. We’ve worked really hard on captains’ training and making sure captains are informed and making sure we’re answering questions and helping them get in touch with their teams and what it means to have a successful outreach and how do … We do rely on email a lot, which is a bit of a drag. It’s also, I have 40 members, so it’d be hard to text everybody. I just think it’s like we are a community of people trying to help each other be better. And then also Sarah started this thing, which I also glommed onto because apparently I just glom onto things that Sarah does.
Sarah Montana: You glommer onto me [inaudible 00:30:27].
Suzanne Weber: I’m a glommer. I’m a glommer.
Devin Delliquanti: You volunteer. You step into the breach.
Suzanne Weber: I volunteer.
Devin Delliquanti: It’s not a glom.
Suzanne Weber: I do. I say, “Sarah, do you need help?” And Sarah goes, “Not really.” And I go, “Great, where do I go?”
Sarah Montana: First of all, I have never not once said, “I don’t need help.” I need that very clearly on the record.
Suzanne Weber: That’s true, that’s true. But Sarah started this thing, which is sort of a program that we have now that is once a month where we sort of onboard new members. It’s based in what other unions do with their membership and what shop stewards do, and it’s fantastic. It’s just a fantastic, if you’re a new member, to your point, Devin, you’re distracted, you’re busy, you’re working. This is a thing where it’s like there’s history and there’s a whole section on that health stuff and what you can do and what your union does for you and what the resources are.
And I think it’s really important. I think, again, I feel this acutely as a captain, it is really important for me to make sure that every member feels heard and feels a part of this community and that there is as much engagement as you want you get. You’re not going to get … Again, you’re never going to be alone in terms of your responsibility, but you also are going to have a tremendous amount of support in terms of if you become a more involved member, you are going to open up a lot of doors for yourself. It’s really been so tremendously rewarding for me.
Sarah Montana: Well, part of the thought for that too was that there’s a lot of different ways that staff and Mack in particular around assigning people captains is always trying to keep up with the number of members that we have, but it’s also a way to try to grab you from the beginning and be like, “Let’s talk about captains. Let’s talk about their role. Let’s talk about what you guys were saying before about…” This is also how we get feedback from members and figure out where the gaps in services are. This is a relationship that goes two ways. It’s not just that I, as a captain, email you every couple of weeks, or maybe that’s generous, every couple of weeks. Then I email you and go like, “Hey, there’s another action.” “Hey, there’s something to come out to.” “Hey, how is this going?” It’s also information gathering so that we know what to fight for in the MBA, so that we know whether healthcare and pension is functioning well for you, whether credits are going well.
I mean, getting that information. Ben August gave me advice as a captain because he’s been a captain for a long time. When we were out in Jersey, I was like, “I keep sending emails to my team and I’m hearing nothing.” And he was like, “It’s going to sound lame, but you have to pick up. You need to send them an email and say, ‘you will get a call from me on Friday.’ You don’t have to answer the phone. In which case you’ll get an annoying voicemail from me, but I’m calling to check on you. I just want to know what’s going on for you, how to strike feel, what are your feelings about the industry? This is just a chance for me as a captain to check in with you and relay your concerns to the people who make decisions at the union on a staff level and on a leadership level.”
I think if I’d gotten that advice in non-strike times, I would’ve been like, “Yeah, right. I’m never calling, who wants to get a phone call? Not me. We’re all phone phobic in 2025,” but because during strike, we saw so often Luna Castro was one of our organizers on staff, and when we were trying to turn people out to pickets, you would realize that you can ignore a text message, you can ignore an email. It can all just be clutter. Even for me, one of the first shutdown pickets I went to, I was really nervous. It sounded aggressive. I am kind of a scaredy cat, and Luna Castro had said something to me about it in person. I was like, “I don’t know, maybe I can, I can’t drive. I don’t know if I can go out in Jersey like that.”
And then he called me later that night and was like, “All right, I got you a ride. We’ll see you at 5:00 A.M. We’re going out in Jersey. We’ll pick you up.” And I was like, “I can’t say no to this man’s voice and now there’s a connection here, person to person.” And that fundamentally changes. Suddenly the union and the strike and all of that feels … Even though I was already a captain, my fears went away about that communication pipeline because I was talking to a human being. It’s harder to say no to a human being or to think that a human being doesn’t care about how you feel about things or your perspective.
I think that this is skipping ahead a couple of questions in what we’re talking about today, but that to me is one of the biggest obstacles is how do I let my team know that their union cares about them, that I care about them, that this is a person to person relationship? And that solidarity consists of a thousand different tiny connections, not just showing up once in a while, that we want to be here in peacetime and wartime and that this net gets stronger the more we’re all engaging in this thing together.
Suzanne Weber: No, I was going to say, yeah. I mean, look, no one responds to me on my emails, but on my team and I’m not … I would say don’t listen to this part, Mack Harden, but I’m not the most active captain, but when I do send an email, I actually really thoughtfully send an email. I really do try to check in, and I really do try to give people information that I think is really important. And here’s something you can sign and here’s something you can come to and here’s a new piece of information that’s important for you to have.
We do get the WGAE newsletter that does have a lot of that information. But I do think also, yeah, we are not on strike, but we are all aware that this is a very difficult time in this industry and there’s a contraction and people, a lot of people aren’t working, and that is really stressful and a lot of people are figuring out if they can stay in this business that they love so much. And again, it’s not like your captain is your therapist, but I have answered a lot of questions about pivoting to, if you’re running out of your health insurance, here’s what we can do. There are resources. It’s not like … The union’s not going to find you a job, but the union is truly devoted to ensuring that even during hard times, there are some safety nets.
Sarah Montana: I’m going to reiterate one more time. We cannot get you a job. We can make sure there are resources.
Suzanne Weber: We cannot get you a job.
Sarah Montana: We cannot get you a job, but we can make sure that we can strategize how to make sure you keep your healthcare for as long as possible. We can create networking events and opportunities to meet with other writers, and then who knows who you end up brainstorming with or who you get inspired by or how that creates the next thing that actually does lead to the thing. Because this is an industry that’s sort of fueled on creativity and imagination and hope and connection that way. Right?
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. I also feel like, because it’s important to me, I used to go to a lot of events out in LA. I went to some here and you go to these meetings and I just didn’t know anybody. And so I’d kind of get my little turkey wrap or my little whatever, and I would just sort of stand in the corner, just sort of looking around at all these people making connections. And now it’s like I’m able to walk into a room and be like, “Hey, you’re this person and you’re this person.” And it’s just like, yes, there is the version of this where it’s like someone like, “You seem like a very nice, smart person. Do you want a job?” I mean, I guess there’s that version, but the real version is that you get to have this community of people who are going through the same thing, who understand the life you lead. And that is really, really comforting. And I feel like, I mean, not that you should become a captain for your social life, but also don’t not become a captain for your social.
Sarah Montana: Yeah. I mean, Devin, did you have a lot of experience understanding what captains even were before you became a captain? Or did you feel like it was like you went from member to catapult to captain? Because that was my experience.
Devin Delliquanti: Same here. I didn’t totally understand. I just knew that there was somebody who would communicate the important information to the room, but it seemed more formalized and that it was kind of a transition within the Guild that we were building that network in response to the agency campaign, in response to perhaps a contentious MBA negotiation. And it just seemed like the right time to step up. And speaking to the feeling in the industry right now and how tough it seems to be, I think that’s in so many ways the point of an entertainment union is there are going to be slower times, and the point of the union is to get you through those.
I remember I worked at VH1 for years at a talk show, and there was just … We had no protections, none of that. So when we were dark, we were dark, we didn’t have healthcare, we weren’t earning towards a pension. There was nothing like that. Certainly no residuals, any of that. So the point of being in the union is that it’s a network to get you through those tougher times in your career and in the industry. And part of the fight right now is trying to get more union jobs out there to stand up for everything from … I have on my desk at work, the Daily Show writers support the Onion Union when the Onion was [inaudible 00:40:03].
Sarah Montana: Yes.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. And that was a campaign that was one, there was a CBS News action earlier this year, and part of it is just stepping up and helping during those fights. So there are more union shops, which means there are more union jobs out there, which means if it is slower, at least you have the tools in between jobs to bank healthcare points to have healthcare coverage for a year, to be able to qualify for a year in a way that you can’t in some of the non-union jobs. And those fights now, quote unqoute, “peacetime” now it’s still so important to have those fights because it gives people the ability to make a career and not just kind of go from job to job or have to panic as soon as something goes away to have at least a little bit of a cushion.
Sarah Montana: I mean, that was my feeling too. I was really in awe when I first joined the union at how much artists just don’t experience a lot of protection in this country, in the world. It is just a really raw, vulnerable thing to say, “I’m going to go out in the world. I’m going to make art in an economy that thinks that I’m entitled for even wanting this to be my job in the first place, or that it was a crazy degree to pursue.” So to come to a place where it felt like writers were protected and empowered and could be mobilized to protect other writers, that in and of itself was awe-inspiring.
But honestly, everything posed strike, to your point, Devin, about how we’re organizing writers in other spaces that haven’t had protections before. Mobilizing the Captains Network around that, being able to show up for Sesame Street negotiations the way that we did, or PBS, the way that we did or CBS and say that, “No, if all writers are under attack, we’re trying to protect as many writers as possible.” It’s been really just … I keep saying empowering and non-inspiring, but to see that the power we built during strike and the fact that that was effective and we got this deal, and it was…
I mean, in the news all of the time, that now it means something when we show up to these other actions that political action builds on itself, that we’re able to now advocate for writers who haven’t had a voice and bring them into the fold and give them that protection is, like Suzanne said, way at the beginning, it’s completely changed my feeling about political action across the board. I’m somebody who used to go to protests and do my thing or make my phone calls to get people to vote, and there was always a little tiny voice in the back of my head that was like, “I don’t know, man. This is such an uphill battle and I’m doing what I got to do, but what’s the point?”
And then you participate in something like this where there’s a clear goal where it’s like, no, we are fighting for a contract or we are fighting for these protections, and it will be very clear if we succeed or we don’t. And sometimes we won’t succeed and we’ll have to get back up and try again. There’s something so concrete about it and who you’re fighting for and what you’re fighting for that has built a resilience that carries over into honestly, every other part of my life.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. Oh my God, totally. And I think also that given what’s going on in terms of the world and how these grassroots activists and protesting and marching, I mean these … I’ve gotten connected to leaders in other unions, in other organizations who are mobilizing, and it’s really been incredibly cool to realize that I actually have skills now in terms of organizing and in terms of activism and in terms of like and showing up as a member or a member of council of the Writers Guild of America East is meaningful. And it’s really, I think unions are so important now. And I think having union with an incredibly active and engaged membership is the thing that is … We are sort of the cavalry. We are the ones that are, we are going to protect each other and we are going to protect others. And I think the strength of unions and keeping unions active in this fight and aligned it’s … I don’t know.
It’s the only thing that’s keeping me sane right now is the ability to connect with my team, to connect with other captains, to talk to staff, I mean so many people on staff. I don’t know why I found this amazing, because this is so obvious probably, but so many people on our staff have degrees in labor organizing. You know what I mean? They are really, really, really smart and educated about this stuff. So I feel like when I would be on the picket and I would just stand by the table because I’m pretty lazy person. I would just talk, I would talk to Michelle and I would talk to Jeff and I would talk to Mack and I would just talk about the history of labor organizing. And it’s really, really cool.
Sarah Montana: Oh, I got baptized in the Church of Labor by Luna Castro during picket the 2023-year MBA. I like candidly feel like I actually didn’t understand that I was part of the labor movement until that happened that I was like, “Well, yeah, I’m in the Writers Guild of America.” And I took that seriously. But understanding the history we were inside of, not just as part of the entertainment industry, but the power that we have as a union and the political power that has, but also our place in history, in the labor movement, that was a big shift for me to have Guild staff who are … Even the first time I met Josh on staff, I naively when I was first in the union, thought that everybody … Because this happens at Guild sometimes where there’s writers who get hired, and Josh was like, “Oh, no, I’m an organizer” almost a little bit offended. Like, “No, no, no, no. I’m an organizer. I am a labor person.” I was like-
Devin Delliquanti: I’m not some loser writer.
Suzanne Weber: Totally.
Sarah Montana: Josh, you are way nicer than that. I’m making it sound more dramatic than it was, but it was funny to see that. It was like, no, no, no. Our church is writing. We care spiritually about writing. And that has been our portal into labor activism. Our staff, they love labor and they love writers and protecting workers. And that relationship and give and take has also been a really cool thing that’s come out of being a captain is just getting to learn about what does it mean to be in a union from a political perspective? What does it mean to build organizing skills?
Suzanne Weber: Totally. I agree with that.
Sarah Montana: That’s not a thing I thought I was going to get out of this experience, and yet has totally changed my life.
Devin Delliquanti: This is a little bit embarrassing. I had never read Howard Zinn’s People’s History of the United States, and I picked up a copy right as the strike was starting. I was like, “I got to read this. It’s a gap in my knowledge. I’d heard enough people talk about it.” And so much of it is about the history of the labor movement and the wins that labor has had. And as I was reading it over the summer, I swear this is true on consecutive pages, there was one page about a general strike in I think the early 20th century that had a kickoff meeting at Cooper Union downtown, and that’s where our strike kickoff meeting had been.
And then on the very next page was a story about how they used to bust Italian immigrants who arrived at Ellis Island into the coal mines in Pennsylvania as a union busting activity. And it was immigrants coming in, and my ancestors had come from Italy and were bust that way into the coal mines and worked in the coal mines, and it was on consecutive pages, the story of my family history in America over a hundred years. And I had never felt that way. You learn American history in class and Columbus and George Washington and the battle and the Civil War, but it was such a tangible connection of my family’s story in America, and it’s linked to the labor movement. And I had never experienced it before or felt it or read it and felt like, “Oh, okay, I have a connection to this thing.” And it was just a really profound moment. I feel like I’ve earned a moment to be schmaltzy about it. But it was great.
And I think that the strike really did that. It’s easy, as we were talking about before, that feeling of like, oh, I feel like an imposter. I don’t feel like that. But that’s sort of … The history of that is people stepping up into those moments and fighting for generation of writers and generations of writers to come. That’s what the labor movement is. And obviously our strikes were not as difficult and painful as the strikes throughout American history, but they were painful for us. It was a difficult fight. And I think that it’s inspiring to know that we played our part and hopefully it will set the table for people to reap the benefits for hopefully generations to come.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. And I really feel like … I mean, yeah, you’re right. It’s the writers union. It’s not like we’re in the coal mines, but I think there is something … I mean, maybe, I don’t know. I don’t think it’s just because I became a captain then became a member of council. But I do believe that being a member of a union right now and being an engaged member of union right now is doing the work. It is actually showing up and doing the work. And so many of my friends are like, “I don’t know what to do. I don’t know how to help.” Or like Sarah, you were saying before of like, “Am I making a difference?” And I feel like my participation in this union is making a difference.
It makes a difference to the members. We are protecting workers. We are making sure that our contracts are being followed. We are standing up when our writers, when our workers are being exploited. And it’s really like to talk about now that the fight between billionaires and the middle class and every other class is so robust right now in our political discourse, but that has been something that has been true for us and becoming more true as all of these platforms become monopolized by a couple companies. And I think that it’s worth being involved in our union. And as much as you … I mean, obviously we are all devoted, but it’s gratifying. It gives back.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. To involvement, something as simple as when we were on the picket lines and a car would go by and honk, just the feeling-
Suzanne Weber: It feels great.
Devin Delliquanti: It’s the smallest action, but it does so much. And it’s just an act of communicating that I’m with you. And it reverberates out to … The reason that I think the strike was successful was because SAG stood up and joined us. IATSE and the Teamsters respected the picket lines and have to shout them out forever, forever, forever. But that’s what the solidarity is in those moments, is the people who stand with the union. And it is something as simple as a honk to not crossing a picket line to know that you are together and that people are with you and fighting with you and support your fight.
And I think like you say, that’s so important right now, even when it’s not the industry you work in, even when it’s not your union, even when it’s not anything to do with you to stand up and support is so important. And a little action like honking can go a long way for people who have been on picket lines for months and are feeling downtrodden or it really makes a difference. Even the littlest things.
Sarah Montana: To that point, when we’re talking about even the history of the labor movement, we have a member who used to be on council, Kim Kelly, who wrote a book called Fight Like Hell. It’s a history of the labor movement and-
Suzanne Weber: Incredible.
Sarah Montana: … it’s an incredible book. It’s definitely worth reading. Let’s plug our writers. But to your point, Devin, it’s like sometimes it feels weird that we’re like writers and there’s this history that has coal miners and seamstresses and all of these things, and you read this history and you realize all of it is building on a thing, and we’re standing on shoulders and standing on shoulders, and the industries that come to the front of public consciousness for whatever reason, are sort of indicative of that time and the zeitgeist. I think the writers’ strike was as big as it was because in part, the AI thing has become so big.
I’m a co-chair of the AI task force, and we’re constantly thinking about this existential threat to writers, and I found … Look, I married a man who grew up in Texas, and I became a strike captain, fully expected to go visit Dallas on a weekend off during strike, and to be met with a lot of conservative backlash about the strike. And instead, it was this moment where there was this just really clear language about what was at stake as writers, right? This is the ability to be a human. This is the ability to be a worker. This is the ability to like, what is the meaningful relationship between art and humanity and the ability to work? And what does it mean for a couple of people at the top to not even give you 2%?
I mean, those things, it was so clear in a way that I found myself getting support from people who I adore and our family members, but politics is usually a nasty drag out fight with. Suddenly there was this thing that was really clear and activating, and that could create this bridge in a way that I’d never had with my conservative in-laws or my conservative family. There’s power in that. There’s power in also seeing yourself as a part of this history and realizing there’s the Christopher Columbus and the George Washingtons and things like that, but the labor movement’s a little bit different.
Those seamstresses in New England were a series of captains, essentially, what we’re doing right now, because it’s collective power. Every little thing, a honking a horn, being a captain, emailing a team, that’s all the drops in the ocean that add up to this massive body of water that has force and has power. That’s kind of a weird mixed metaphor, but you know what I mean?
Suzanne Weber: There was a lot. There was a lot in that. I mean-
Sarah Montana: I’m willing to be noted.
Suzanne Weber: … I’d like to see the transcript.
Sarah Montana: Great, great.
Suzanne Weber: And really, actually … No, I think it’s … Right. I mean, to get back, I guess to captaining, I think that I just want to say, I really am not someone who really wants to step up and take responsibility. I’m not, and I’m not also somebody who likes to join in. I am really kind of whatever, and I talk a lot about community, but I would be just as happy doing all of this if there was a way other than stepping up. But once I stepped up, I mean, as Sarah said, really early on, the amount of support that you get and also the amount of credit that we get as captains, it’s so many times leadership was like, “We couldn’t have done this without our Captains Network.” And I was like, “Really?” It’s like, “Oh my God, the captains,” I feel like, I mean, yes, it is emailing and it’s dealing and there’s a little bit of that, but it’s not the hugest lift in terms of time and responsibility.
It’s just that you get a little more information. You get to parse that information out to your team. You get to walk into a writer event and be like, “Oh my God, you’re on my team, hello” or whatever. And get to have connections to people in a way that is different than just showing up in an event and being like, “Do you want half that pistachio muffin?” And yeah, I just really, I think just being a captain did motivate me to take on more responsibility and to get on council and being on council has … I also did have the feeling of like now that my council … Do I have still have to be a captain? Can I drop these people? But no. No, because I love them all. I love all 40 of you who I’m sure you’ll be listening. Because I’m going to send you a freaking email saying, “I’m on this podcast.”
Devin Delliquanti: You get a pin and it changes you. Once you’ve got that pin, it all change.
Suzanne Weber: The little people. Look at my pin, it’s also very tiny.
Devin Delliquanti: I don’t wear a pin.
Suzanne Weber: So yeah, I feel like it’s just, I don’t know, whatever. I mean, yeah.
Sarah Montana: I mean the other important thing I think to talk about too here in all of that is I could understand if someone was listening to us talk right now and be like, “Whoa,” it’s a little intimidating to talk about going through strike and all of that if you’re new. But the reality is when I meet new members now, I’m like, “Do you want to be a captain?” And they’re like, “I can’t be a captain because I’m new.” And I’m like, “Actually, there’s no prerequisite.” Literally the only prerequisite for being a captain is that you’re a member of this union. That’s it.
You don’t have to have experience. We will train you. We will put you on a signal chat with all of the other captains who are happy to skill share and talk through these things. But literally, there’s no … The best time to become a captain was yesterday. There’s not something that you have to wait or prove or you don’t even have to be that engaged. This is a way to become engaged, quite frankly.
Suzanne Weber: Oh wow. This is a hard sell.
Sarah Montana: I am. This is the hard sell at the end.
Suzanne Weber: This is the hard sell at the end. I want-
Sarah Montana: If you heard this before the hour is out.
Suzanne Weber: My hard sell is that occasionally you get to come to a meeting where there are snacks.
Sarah Montana: That’s true. That’s true.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. Snacks are … Yeah, that’s good. Writers do love snacks. I think that that’s probably the best part.
Suzanne Weber: Devin, I second that.
Devin Delliquanti: It’s funny, Sarah, you mentioned the signal chat. When that whole story broke about the signal chat and the pentagon, I know every captain was thinking about Michelle Kuchinsky would never. We had actual operational security for our pickets, and we were never invited people who weren’t supposed to be there. I was thinking about that the whole time of like, you added a journalist to your hootie strike chat. I’m like, “We were picketing daredevil with more security.”
Sarah Montana: Yes.
Devin Delliquanti: It was … I kept thinking-
Sarah Montana: Oh my gosh.
Devin Delliquanti: But I think we all flash back to it. It really was an operation that we were putting together during that time of communicating and getting information from above and getting it to our teams and getting people to certain places.
Suzanne Weber: But that was a specific faction of captains, which I was not part of because I do not want Luna Castro to call me at midnight, tell me he has a ride for me at 5:00 in the morning. Do not want that. But we all have our strengths and weaknesses. But that was the captains’ flying squadron.
Sarah Montana: Yes. So that this is actually, Suzanne, it’s a really good point, just across the board. Our captains are super diverse and it is a divide and conquer thing, right? Suzanne, you were doing a lot of the solidarity pickets and the more demonstrative pickets outside of studios or the themed pickets or that kind of thing. I got sucked into flying squadrons. And Devin, I know you were doing this too with the shutdown pickets, and it was even someone like Sasha, for example, who can’t get up at 5:00 in the morning or 3:00 in the morning for health reasons, is helping really do all of those themed pickets. And that’s a moment where I look around and go, “Okay, but I am physically here in Jersey and a lot of people aren’t. I am able to get up at 3:00, get there at 5:00, come home at noon, get on the phone with Michelle and Jeff, take a nap and do it all again.”
Suzanne Weber: You do what you can. You bring to it what you can, and you bring to it what your strengths are and what your interests are and stuff. Yeah. And it does take all … I don’t know, it was-
Sarah Montana: We would tell people during flying squadrons, Devin, I know you were on the horn with me, trying to get people to come out to these pickets. It’s like, we don’t need you to come for the full three hours. You don’t have to … If you can only come for 15 minutes, come for 15 minutes. I think that’s true with anything with the union. It’s like you don’t have to run for council from scratch. You don’t have to suddenly, you don’t have to be powerful. You don’t have to anything. If you have 10 minutes, if you have 15 minutes, if you show up to something like Scripted Forum and meet your fellow writers, and there’s a lot of different ways to get involved in small ways, and those things are actually not small. There’s no such thing as it being inconsequential in terms of your being an active union member.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. And speaking to the responsibilities of being a captain, showing up to pickets like that, you are also a liaison trying to get other people to go there too. I remember the first week of the strike, there was a big picket in Greenpoint in Brooklyn, and I went there, it was in the afternoon. I showed up with some Peter Pan Donuts. I was like … There’s this great donut shop in Brooklyn. It’s in one of the Spider-Man movies. I went, I was like, “I’m going to get Peter Pan Donuts. This is going to be great. Everyone’s going to be so happy.” And I got there and I was like, “Hey, I brought donuts” and put them on the table. And there was seven other boxes of Peter Pan Donuts that everyone had shopped. They got off the train and I put on the table then an hour later, and we were picketing. We were at two different doors.
And then Pete Davidson showed up with pizzas from Spumoni Gardens. So it was like we were carbo-loaded for all 150 days of the strike from that one picket. But so then there were a lot of people there. And then it whittled down and whittled down, and the strike was supposed, or the picket was supposed to end at 5:00 or 6:00, and then they were moving to a second location, and it was a small group of us. We brought the donuts. We didn’t waste anything. We brought the leftover pizza, cold pizza, and we got to this other studio where they were shooting something, and that was the night that three writers shut down a giant taping and it got a lot of press pickup, but there was a moment where it seemed like maybe it was going to end.
The Guild staff was changing over. Everybody who had been there for hours walking in a circle started to leave, and the captains who were there put out feelers like, “Hey, this is still going. The crew are not going to cross the picket.” IATSE and Teamsters again, shout out to them. They weren’t going to cross the picket line as long as there was a picket line and all you need is someone walking in front. And we had the numbers got down, and then I put out a call on one of my group texts and I’ll shout them out. Joe Opio from the Daily Show showed up there and was there with three other people, and they marched until 1:00 in the morning. And the solidarity, it was a big win of the strike where it was like, we have a network to really do this.
And again, it wasn’t about I was there until 3:00 in the morning, but just the connection and the network is part of what being a captain is is showing up, bringing donuts, even though 20 other people already brought donuts and Pete Davidson’s bringing pizza and then moving it to another place and then coordinating to get somebody else to be there and to stand up. And then if they do that, be like, “Oh, I’ll get their Uber home.” Or, “I’ll contact the press” like using your skillset to kind of be a liaison between other people. That was such a huge part of the early wins of the strike. And to demonstrate the solidarity with the other unions, and that’s what part of what being a captain is about and feeling that solidarity across our industry, across the economy, across all of it.
Sarah Montana: No, it’s a good point too because it’s like we’re not always having to plan or prescribe in advance. In that moment, you’re sending out something to your team and not knowing for sure that it’s going to be Joe who shows up and does that. And I remember being on the signal and waking up at 1:00 in the morning and because my phone was buzzing and seeing and being like, “Where do I send money for the Uber? How do we do this?” And it really energized complete … I mean, the strike completely changed from that moment.
And it’s such a good example of you as a captain, as a pivot point in that thing everybody’s doing. It’s not that there’s … A lot of times in moments like this, you think there’s a strike hero or a union hero or something like that, but nobody is actually acting in isolation. It’s all of these tiny points of connection that funneled together to suddenly change the tide of something in really big and meaningful ways.
Devin Delliquanti: I remember that people were leaving as that was happening. I remember thinking, “Oh, if I made Joe go all the way to Greenpoint and no one’s there, I will have lost all of my credibility for the whole rest of it.” But thankfully there were … It’s those little moments that really make such a difference. And it’s what being a captain is all about.
Sarah Montana: Totally. No, and look, we’ve talked about how these things are lessons that we take into the rest of our lives. The fact that Teamsters and IATSE and crew were willing to not cross, like hearing, I think it was Jeff Betts who told us in the training for those shutdown pickets that a line is just two dots. All you need to make a line is two people to show up. I mean, the impact that has had across the rest of my life for political action for anything else is that all the line requires is for one other person to stand with you to put up something and say, “Please don’t cross this.” It’s a game changer. It’s completely changed how I think about everything.
Suzanne Weber: Do you guys want to A, make this the longest podcast in history? Or B, have some closing thoughts?
Sarah Montana: We should probably have closing thoughts because I care about [inaudible 01:05:16]-
Suzanne Weber: I guess we should wrap up.
Sarah Montana: … Tiana’s night.
Suzanne Weber: Because really this could just be an audiobook.
Sarah Montana: There you go.
Suzanne Weber: We’re just a good 11 hours away from releasing this as chapters.
Sarah Montana: That’s it. Book talk here.
Devin Delliquanti: We could be like The Brutalist and just have an intermission in the middle of the podcast and people can come back.
Suzanne Weber: Whoever’s editing this, and when you put the car horn, could you also put some intermission music in?
Sarah Montana: Oh, yeah. Hit us with the little elevator music, little organ.
Suzanne Weber: Do we have closing thoughts? I have some closing thoughts. I don’t actually, I said it before. I actually had a thought.
Devin Delliquanti: Oh, share your closing thoughts then.
Suzanne Weber: I just was worried nobody had any closing thoughts.
Sarah Montana: I have some. I mean, I think we should talk next step. First off, I guess if you don’t have a captain or you don’t know who your captain is, I think it’s important if you’re listening to this, step one, figure out who your captain is. But step two-
Suzanne Weber: If you’re member of the union, if you’re listening to this and you’re not a member of the union, you don’t get a captain.
Sarah Montana: Please don’t email Mack.
Suzanne Weber: No. Don’t … No.
Sarah Montana: But if you are a member of the union, I can’t tell you how many people have been like, “I don’t know who my captain is.” And that is a pipeline that opens up a lot of things, right? It can help you get … It can help you. It can be the difference between qualifying for your healthcare and not, because there’s somebody who helps you check the portal and go, “Hey, you thought that the company paid into this and they delayed a payment, and now you’re off by a quarter.” If you take nothing else away from the longest podcast in OnWriting history, know who your captain is. But more importantly, if you’re ready to join us, I know we’ve all traded war stories on this podcast, but it really is important in the community that we’ve built and the ability to feel like you have a political home in times where it feels like everything is shifting constantly and it’s hard to know where to take action.
I just can’t say enough about this experience and what it means to be in this, not just with other people, but with other writers who care about art and care about the world and see the world this way. And the thing that I think is one of the most powerful tools of resistance is imagination. It’s the ability to not just react to the things that the world does that are punitive or that are sort of these terrible recursive power structures, but the ability to continue to imagine the world you want to live in. And the beauty of being in solidarity with writers is that you get to be with people who not only take action, but who are able to imagine that world. And that has been … Yeah, it’s very energizing. It’s been transformative for me.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah. I would say also that it is at times where it has been frustrating to come up with something that sells or to get staffed or to feel like a writer in my everyday life, this is a way to, as Sarah said, be involved with other writers to be working to make my union better. It does feel satisfying to spend hours crafting a really, really beautiful email that no one will respond to. And I think that, yeah, I mean, yes, it feels like this is an advertisement for like, “Come, come, join our cult,” but you should join our cult.
Sarah Montana: And some of you already have.
Suzanne Weber: Yeah, it’s not-
Devin Delliquanti: You can never advertise your cult with the snacks and the drinks. That’s always a red flag.
Suzanne Weber: Is that?
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah.
Suzanne Weber: I feel like that’s exactly how cults are advertised.
Devin Delliquanti: I guess. I mean, it’s usually how they end.
Suzanne Weber: And the merch. And the merch.
Sarah Montana: The pin.
Devin Delliquanti: We have good hats. I think hats. Hats and pins.
Suzanne Weber: We have great hats.
Sarah Montana: No one can drink a hat, to my knowledge.
Suzanne Weber: Anyway, you should be involved with your union, whether you become a captain or you be in touch with your captain or whatever. Do not fear reaching out and being involved. And that was my closing thought. And Devin, do you have a … What?
Sarah Montana: One more thing-
Suzanne Weber: Do you have another?
Sarah Montana: … and then I’ll throw it to Devin. You’re not going to get in trouble with your union or with your captain. I mean if you do something really crazy, but I think sometimes there’s a pervasive fear of like, well, I’m not going to reach out because what if I did something wrong? Or we’re in roles constantly where we’re … It’s lonely to be a writer in this industry. Even when you’re in a TV room, you’re kind of constantly scrapping for a job. You’re constantly thinking there’s something you’re going to do that’s going be the thing that suddenly the slide out of this industry, right? And your union is fighting for you. So even when there are things where we misstep or if you go to Mack and you’re like, “I don’t know about this job, Mack.” Mack will turn around often and say, “Hey, the worst case here is that we can’t protect you in this instance.” You’re not going to get in trouble. I think sometimes there’s a big fear around that.
Suzanne Weber: No.
Sarah Montana: Sometimes.
Suzanne Weber: Communication is key. Yeah. Communication’s important. And that is, again, to Sarah’s point, that is captains are your first line of communication. And we are three of the friendliest captains in the network, but most of them are really friendly, wouldn’t you say?
Devin Delliquanti: Yes, I would say so. For sure.
Suzanne Weber: They’re no unfriendly captains.
Sarah Montana: There’s a power ranking incoming. That’s how we’ll close out actually.
Suzanne Weber: Who’s making that? Who’s going to make the power ranking?
Sarah Montana: I don’t know. During strike, we tried to do a fast food ranking, but it went off the rails so fast on that captain signal. So who’s to say?
Devin Delliquanti: And then there was like a strikees award show people were planning, and then the strike ended.
Suzanne Weber: Whatever happened to that?
Devin Delliquanti: And it was like, are we doing the strikees? It’s like the strike’s over. We don’t…
Suzanne Weber: Nobody needs it. We all got the participation award.
Devin Delliquanti: I think the threat of the strikees is what finally finished the strike. That’s why. It was a bridge too far for everybody. But yeah, I think closing thought, in late nights, so many writers come from stand-up comedy or improv, and you start out and you’re used to performing for drink tickets and pizza. And I honestly sometimes just go back to, I really feel like the Writers Guild is the only thing that stops us from being paid in pizza and drink tickets still. And I think I’m so grateful for it every day and getting involved in the union is wonderful. I recommend it to everybody.
Suzanne Weber: But also sometimes there is pizza.
Sarah Montana: There is sometimes-
Devin Delliquanti: And that’s great.
Sarah Montana: And once a month there’s bagels and coffee, so it’s scripted for them. So come-
Devin Delliquanti: Look, I’m not disrespecting pizza. I don’t want anyone to hate that.
Suzanne Weber: What just happened here, Devin?
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. No, I would never.
Suzanne Weber: That’s on on next week’s OnWriting.
Devin Delliquanti: Yeah. My ancestors did not come to this country to hear their lineage pronounced pizza. But anyway, yeah.
Suzanne Weber: So we did make this the longest episode in OnWriting History.
Sarah Montana: A hundred percent.
Devin Delliquanti: OnWriting is a production of the Writers Guild of America East. The series is produced by WGAE staff members, Jason Gordon, Tiana Timmerberg, and Molly Beer. Production, mix and original music are by Taylor Bradshaw. To learn more about the Writers Guild of America East, visit us online at wgaeast.org or follow the Guild on all social media platforms at WGA East. If you enjoyed the podcast, please subscribe and give us a five star rating. Thanks for listening. Until next time, write on.
